booggy
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Post by booggy on Apr 13, 2017 17:26:23 GMT
I don't know if Nemo1 is a good drop vs CoC... I would fear the Mother Domination/Backlash game with all my jacks. Sure, feat would save a turn (no focus on Corollary, no arc-node), but Prime Axiom can still be full functionnal.
But anyway, i like the list. Did you consider switching a Stormclad by the Stormstrider (to hide Nemo, to buff lightning shot and have more ranged stuff) ?
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gmonkey
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Post by gmonkey on Apr 13, 2017 17:38:51 GMT
In the last Nemo1 game I had against CoC, Nemo1 steamrolled Syntherion by completely controlling threat ranges, largely thanks to Lanyssa Ryssyl, who alternately did Hunters Mark stacked with locomotion, and Winter Storm to stop enemies from getting through a forest while Rhupert let my stormblades ignore it.
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Post by snarlyyow on Apr 13, 2017 18:45:30 GMT
I don't know if Nemo1 is a good drop vs CoC... I would fear the Mother Domination/Backlash game with all my jacks. Sure, feat would save a turn (no focus on Corollary, no arc-node), but Prime Axiom can still be full functionnal. But anyway, i like the list. Did you consider switching a Stormclad by the Stormstrider (to hide Nemo, to buff lightning shot and have more ranged stuff) ? The Mother backlash treatment is scary, scary stuff. You definetly gotta kill the auto-point servitors. And you gotta feat to get rid of her arc node. Hopefully there's no Prime Axiom. But, yeah, Mother is scary when you have 14 boxes. I played Darius into Mother recently against the fantastic Aaron Allen (4 Man podcast). It's pretty easy for Mother to do 7 points to your caster every turn. Not a big deal when you have 22 boxes and can be repaired!
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Post by snarlyyow on Apr 14, 2017 2:44:17 GMT
So I just had nemo1 top of 2 Doomie3. He advanced 5 and Dynamo and a Firefly was all she wrote. Four focus OP!
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Post by snarlyyow on Apr 16, 2017 15:27:43 GMT
Took Nemo1 to a 23 player event. Went 2-1 with him, my loss being to haley2 in a game I derped on majorly but felt like I was advantaged in (who knew disrupting Thorn would be good?). Then I dropped him into sevy2 and proceeded to table my opponent, 102 Army points and 5 CPs to zilch. Apparently Nemo's feat is pretty baller into a bunch of jacks with Oracular Vision. Then I dropped him into a Bart Galleon list where a fortuitous obstruction allowed me to play one flag with almost no consequences while abusing Voltaic Snare. I threw away two jacks to go to three CPs early, then rode that final flag out to victory. Also of note, Bart's feat says enemy models advancing into his control become knockdown. Did you know running a Firefly to the flag, becoming KD'd, then Chain Lightning that KD'd firefly to kill those Eliminators is pretty awesome. I never felt disadvantaged all day, I was lucky to get four rounds of Warmachine and no Hordes. I got real salty on my Round 2 derp in a game I should have won against Haley. Such is life. Git gud.
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Post by rantapanda on Apr 17, 2017 10:05:21 GMT
Really is a downer to have such a cool caster, but whos feat only really affects 50% of the factions. I dont know why they didnt include somekind of effect against hordes armies. Dont you think it really cuts down nemo:s effectiveness, or how have you been experiencing playing against hordes?
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gmonkey
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Post by gmonkey on Apr 17, 2017 12:31:03 GMT
I lost a game with Nemo1 last night to Ossrum in theme with an Earthbreaker and 26 Forge Guard. Dynamo one-rounded the Siege Crawler, but Nemo got no feat since the Earthbreaker was the only jack. And while I took out most of the forge guard on their way in, it only took a small handful to wreck all my heavies (except the centurion) in one round. I wrote up this game if anyone's interested in reading a battle report: casualty-wmh.blogspot.com/2017/04/battle-report-mercenaries-ossrum-vs.html
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Post by snarlyyow on Apr 17, 2017 15:55:37 GMT
Really is a downer to have such a cool caster, but whos feat only really affects 50% of the factions. I dont know why they didnt include somekind of effect against hordes armies. Dont you think it really cuts down nemo:s effectiveness, or how have you been experiencing playing against hordes? So maybe I'm letting the cat out of the bag here, but I really think his feat is fine. There are matchups where it's baller like that Sevy2 matchup I mentioned. And there are matchups where it does nothing at all. His feat isn't the problem. His problem is Voltaic Snare. Voltaic Snare is awesome and I've come to appreciate it more and more every time Nemo hits the table. But the fact that it doesn't work on beasts really hurts. I've been lucky to only play him into Hordes once, Baldur2, and I would have loved to have shut down his Woldwrath with Voltaic Snare. Nemo is really strong sans his feat. His feat is just another piece of the puzzle he brings. It'd be nice if it did something to beasts but I think it's largely unnecessary. But if Nemo wants to see loads of play Voltaic Snare really needs to work on beasts. And, I'll say this, if Voltaic Snare worked on beasts Nemo1 might be one of the best casters in Cygnar. Not #5, 6, or 7. But, like, #2 or #3. I really think he's nearly that strong. I think into Warmachine Nemo1 is way stronger than the current player base realizes.
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Post by snarlyyow on Apr 17, 2017 16:01:16 GMT
I lost a game with Nemo1 last night to Ossrum in theme with an Earthbreaker and 26 Forge Guard. Dynamo one-rounded the Siege Crawler, but Nemo got no feat since the Earthbreaker was the only jack. And while I took out most of the forge guard on their way in, it only took a small handful to wreck all my heavies (except the centurion) in one round. I wrote up this game if anyone's interested in reading a battle report: casualty-wmh.blogspot.com/2017/04/battle-report-mercenaries-ossrum-vs.html "The massive turn 4 forge guard alpha that wrecked 43 points of warjacks was the huge turning point."I literally laughed out loud in a coffee shop when I read about your understated misfortune.
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gmonkey
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Post by gmonkey on Apr 17, 2017 16:22:39 GMT
"The massive turn 4 forge guard alpha that wrecked 43 points of warjacks was the huge turning point."I literally laughed out loud in a coffee shop when I read about your understated misfortune. Yeah - I guess "turning point" was a bit of an understatement, wasn't it? I just wish I'd had a good option for an assassination that might have been better than 5%. I'd really like to run Nemo in Heavy Metal, but I really don't want to give up Thorn, the T.A.C., and the Arcane Tempest Rifleman. How do you deal with stealth in theme? I guess just electroleaps. And being limited to Jr, Jakes, and Arlan for power tokens feels super-limiting. Maybe it's all worth it for the extra points (I'd love to get a Defender into my list) but I'm playing this game for fun more than I'm playing it to win. I just have too much fun with the out-of-theme models.
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Post by snarlyyow on Apr 17, 2017 16:47:27 GMT
"The massive turn 4 forge guard alpha that wrecked 43 points of warjacks was the huge turning point."I literally laughed out loud in a coffee shop when I read about your understated misfortune. Yeah - I guess "turning point" was a bit of an understatement, wasn't it? I just wish I'd had a good option for an assassination that might have been better than 5%. I'd really like to run Nemo in Heavy Metal, but I really don't want to give up Thorn, the T.A.C., and the Arcane Tempest Rifleman. How do you deal with stealth in theme? I guess just electroleaps. And being limited to Jr, Jakes, and Arlan for power tokens feels super-limiting. Maybe it's all worth it for the extra points (I'd love to get a Defender into my list) but I'm playing this game for fun more than I'm playing it to win. I just have too much fun with the out-of-theme models. Sure. I'm a super fun guy too. I like playing what I enjoy playing, I'm not a super hardcore power gamer. I guess, if you're playing out of theme you have to ask yourself "Is Thorn worth 30 points?" And he's great and all, but not 30 points great. The TAC seem super slow to me, I never liked them much in MKii and I like them less now with zero boxes. Stealth? My list has 3 fireflies, two stormclads, and chain lightning. It's not a problem. I played into a Bart list with Aiyanna and two units of Eliminators and they didn't concern me. You know, two fireflies threaten 16", 19" with locomotion; most stealth units have trouble scrapping Cygnar lights. As for the power tokens, getting 2 is easy. Arlan can do it every turn. Junior usually runs toward the back edge of the table and casts an Arcane Bolt at something way out of range every turn. Jakes is the big issue. You'll rarely want to recast Sidekick, and casting energizer leaves her camping so very little. Still, Nemo can get tokens from your enemy's models, Animi are spells now so beasts give him a token, and with the Squire he'll get at least 10, which is usually enough.
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gmonkey
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Post by gmonkey on Apr 17, 2017 17:34:24 GMT
I agree that ten is usually enough. But there's something so sweet about getting 7 + 3(from power tokens) +1(from Arlan) +1(from squire) for 12 effective focus.
I think I realized after this latest game against the forge guard that a firefly would have been a great addition. While POW10 electroleaps don't do anything against ARM19 forge guard, POW12 electroleaps would.
The TAC are indeed super-slow. But you don't need them to get anywhere. They basically have to be a couple inches in front of Nemo with smoke. Yes, they prevent the theme, and I agree - they are not good models. But for the time being, I'm going to keep them in my Nemo list. I may have to move Nemo to Heavy Metal some day. BUT TODAY IS NOT THAT DAY! ;-)
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Post by Sir Mythos on Apr 18, 2017 7:54:27 GMT
The feat is amazing, if it works on your opponents list. Even in hordes it is still amazing (lots of damage). I once played against a Midas list which brought back a couple of beasts i had called. Nemos feat brought them all back in their grave right the next turn (tanks to boosted damage).
But when you play against a list with Colossals or electro immunity, you basically play without a feat.
I think getting the maximum out of the list is to learn, how to play it without the feat. Then if you could use your feat, it is a bonus.
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Post by rantapanda on Apr 18, 2017 16:15:50 GMT
Had my first game with nemo1 in-theme against mercs magnus2 i think. The guy who has feat where you cant advance to two predetermined sides of the table. Anyways. He had butloads of heavies and even that lesser crocodile warlock.
After initial shuffling with two control feats and stuff, I got the alpha with greater threat ranges while he had the scenario lead. Boy, dynamo with 4 focus is ballers. Also a thunderclad with 4 focus just murders everything. Also a lightning shrouded firefly with 4 focus kills heavies. We were both suprised how well I mopped the table. Only one damaged mangler was left. What is scary though is nemos crap statline. It looks like assassination just waiting to happen. Luckily his large control area negates this a bit unless you have killbox or want to play scenario.
Anyway nemo1 owned today.
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Post by snarlyyow on Apr 18, 2017 21:02:39 GMT
Had my first game with nemo1 in-theme against mercs magnus2 i think. The guy who has feat where you cant advance to two predetermined sides of the table. Anyways. He had butloads of heavies and even that lesser crocodile warlock. That's Magnus2. His feat is legit. After initial shuffling with two control feats and stuff, I got the alpha with greater threat ranges while he had the scenario lead. Boy, dynamo with 4 focus is ballers. Also a thunderclad with 4 focus just murders everything. Also a lightning shrouded firefly with 4 focus kills heavies. We were both suprised how well I mopped the table. Only one damaged mangler was left. What is scary though is nemos crap statline. It looks like assassination just waiting to happen. Luckily his large control area negates this a bit unless you have killbox or want to play scenario. Anyway nemo1 owned today. His statline is a little misleading. In MKii it was really bad. He wanted a big battle group so if you upkept Lightning Shroud, and cast Locomotion, and loaded up a jack, and had a another jack or two run he'd be sitting on nothing. So he'd be, like, 14/15 with 14 boxes camping 1. Just random shit would kill him. Like, a single boosted gun and an unboosted POW12 would give him a dirt nap. He's a little different now. He doesn't need to give focus to all those jacks to run. The new overpower rules, combined with his massive control area, keep him safer. If he casts decel he can also have Arcane Shield on him, making him 14/20 and usually camping 2 or 3. It's pretty typical for me to load up Dynamo (3), cast decel (3), and upkeep lightning Shroud (1). Maybe I cast locomotion or Voltaic Snare, and I camp between 1 and 3. He's pretty hardy at that point, being 14/17 and far, far back. On the turn he feats all the enemy's jacks will be disrupted so you're pretty safe.
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Chewie
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Post by Chewie on Apr 18, 2017 21:52:19 GMT
I'm assuming that you're basically throwing any extra focus you have on boosted damage for these rolls (assuming there aren't any other random assassination vectors in play). I would guess that's a good way to get out a decent amount of damage around the board if you've got it laying around.
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Post by snarlyyow on Apr 19, 2017 17:09:57 GMT
I'm assuming that you're basically throwing any extra focus you have on boosted damage for these rolls (assuming there aren't any other random assassination vectors in play). I would guess that's a good way to get out a decent amount of damage around the board if you've got it laying around. Sometimes. It just depends. I think with the feat you want to prioritize the problematic stuff. WoldWyrds, Thorn, and heavies that threaten you all get boosted damage rolls. It's usually just between 1 and 3 jacks that get boosted damage rolls. At POW16 you're almost guarunteed to damage nearly everything in the game.
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Chewie
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Post by Chewie on Apr 24, 2017 20:52:36 GMT
Any thoughts on who would pair well with Nemo1? What are his problem matchups?
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sleet01
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Post by sleet01 on Apr 25, 2017 6:43:42 GMT
The Storm Chamber just did an episode (mostly) on Nemo1, but they too seemed to have a problem figuring out the best pairing for the old man.
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Chewie
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Post by Chewie on Apr 25, 2017 14:40:42 GMT
The Storm Chamber just did an episode (mostly) on Nemo1, but they too seemed to have a problem figuring out the best pairing for the old man. LOL, yeah, I just started listening to that episode last night. Seems like there's really not necessarily a bad matchup for him? I wonder if ghost fleet will wreck his day. I was thinking Haley3 as a pair, since it plays so differently and gives me access to a good deal of magical weapons through the echoes.
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gmonkey
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Post by gmonkey on Apr 25, 2017 17:30:15 GMT
I actually might play Nemo1 into Ghost Fleet (plus Kraken) this weekend. The thing that wrecked me with Nemo1 was two dozen Forge Guard. I wish I'd had fireflies. POW12s would have done what POW10s couldn't.
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Post by snarlyyow on Apr 26, 2017 16:25:49 GMT
The Storm Chamber just did an episode (mostly) on Nemo1, but they too seemed to have a problem figuring out the best pairing for the old man. It's an issue because I really think he's very, very strong. But Voltaic Snare is a big part of his kit and it and his feat only work to full effect against half the game. Consider Haley2, she has Domination which is great into Warmachine but sucks into Hordes. But it doesn't matter because her feat and the rest of her kit can suffer that sort of loss. Nemo1 has the issue of the feat not being fantastic into Hordes (and it's kind of a shitty feat in general. Maybe one of the worst feats in Cygnar.) and Voltaic Snare being useless. It's two big strikes against him. The other issue is the feat not disrupting colossals (of course, Voltaic Snare is great against colossals!). I guess what Im saying is there are all these things in the game that really hurt his kit but he's very strong in general. In the mirror it gets weird quick. Decel is great into Cygnar. His feat totally disappears against Storm Division. Nemo can shut down strong pieces like Thorn and the Stormwall, he can throw a Centurion at Stormlances, which makes them totally ineffective. He unexpectedly shits all over Sloan. Nemo1 bringing lightning immune jacks and a generally better melee game with a strong melee threat range makes it playable, and his jacks are really good into Cygnar guns generally. Like I said, it's a weird matchup but playable with Nemo1. So who do you play it with? Nemo1 is an all rounder. My current list hits like a ton of bricks and can handle dudes with it's 3 Firefly setup. I imagine you can build anything to compliment it. I played Haley2 Storm Division with it and it felt like a good pair.
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gmonkey
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Post by gmonkey on Apr 28, 2017 15:20:16 GMT
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Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 28, 2017 22:34:33 GMT
It's a rather fun read, I'll start with a couple of clerical errors though because I can't help myself. Hammersmiths are P+S 17 base so lightning shroud only bumps them to 19. Thorn is P+S 14 base so hits even harder than you claimed. An extra small note but I believe animi from warbeasts will count for his accumulator so the lesser warlocks are able to do double duty for generating power tokens because the beast can generate one as well. In your summary of lightning shroud I didn't notice you mention that warjack gains immunity electricity. Not often relevant but sometimes useful to know since e-leaps won't bounce to it whatever the source. I like a lot of what you've written. I also like Nemo, enough to take all three of them as my lists to a tournament one year during Mk2. I didn't do great but did finish with a 4-2 record. It's rare that you get to use it but Nemo's gun is worth mentioning because it's really good. With a firefly it's POW 16 with a 4" AOE of POW 9 blast damage so long as the firefly is nearby, that's enough to shred most infantry and with boosted damage will respectably damage anything tougher. If you brought an avenger or some other form of knockdown he can really surprise people. This makes me quite often think about Reinholdt with him because it's always useful to have an answer to stealth and two shots from that gun can cripple the systems on a heavy. I really like ragman with Nemo1, deathfield is just a very strong ability anyway but the way it stacks with other buffs available to Cygnar make it really potent. If you are lucky enough to stack death field with ionisation for his feat the damage is POW 18 and boostable making it great for finishing off heavy beasts and can even one-shot lights. Lesser's and beast packs just quake in fear as the sight of the old man now. I'm going to make a plug for the minuteman with Nemo, he solves so many of it's problems and supports it so well. It also brings him some incredibly useful tools for clearing charge lanes and spot removal. Flak field should never be under-estimated against lightly armoured infantry and the minuteman can do it as any point it likes (so long as it doesn't interrupt movement) meaning you can advance, flak field and then jump out of the way to shoot something else entirely. Nemo can extend his control area to ensure the minutemen are in range to receive focus and when given 4 focus they can fully boost both slug guns making it a very accurate and hard hitting light indeed. Locomotion is also cute on them but harder to utilise unless you have the restraint to keep them back to clear up your back field and stop flanking threats. I've only used Nemo a few times in Mk3 but he's fun and powerful in the right circumstances and it's always fantastic to see Dynamo kill two enemy heavies in a single turn. (Melee with lightning shroud, death field and ionisation for the e-leaps took care of two menoth heavies at once with the help of the feat.)
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booggy
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Post by booggy on May 1, 2017 15:45:49 GMT
My current iteration of Nemo1 is :
I had a tournament with this list where it went pretty well (2-1, only loss being because of a poor planned assassination run. My other list, Maddox StormDivision, went 1-1). It is suprisingly quite well suited versus a wide range of factions, not only Warmachine... even faction without warjacks nor warbeast (Cephalyx) ^^.
Without even speaking about Dynamo, Centurion, Lancer or Fireflies, which are standard jacks for Nemo1 I believe, Ironclad is such a monster, regarding its cost... Arcane Shield + Deceleration + 2" extended DZ from TF + Locomotion make it an early threat which can be ignored, and quite hard to remove. Next turn, if it's still here, a lot of options : - Arcane Shield can be switched for Lightning Shroud, then 4 focus + Locomotion to destroy a lot of things - A Throw from 9" (SPD 5 + Locomotion 3) toward my shooty jacks.. a nice setting for Dynamo + Firefly and even the Cyclone ^^ - A Tremor attack to set up a heavy shooting session for Dynamo+Firefly
For my future games, I plan to switch the Hunter for a Minuteman (putting a Firefly under Jakes), that single AP shot didn't bring a lot in the list. And I think the Minuteman can be sweet to remove stealthed infantry/solos without committing my fireflies, to dejam my heavies or simply putting 2 boosted POW 14. Eventually, Arcane Shielded and under Deceleration at T1, if it can get a cover (DEF 18 ARM 20 vs ranged), it could survive and wreck the opponent support models at T2.
I'm 2 pts short (unusual for me), but I don't see what I could modify for the moment... and I cannot really complain, the list has already 17 free pts ^^.
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Post by snarlyyow on May 1, 2017 17:31:09 GMT
I'm 2 pts short (unusual for me), but I don't see what I could modify for the moment... and I cannot really complain, the list has already 17 free pts ^^. Trade Ironclad for Reliant?
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booggy
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Post by booggy on May 1, 2017 19:28:36 GMT
Yeah, I thougth about it... but the Tremor special attack + Open Fist seem more useful than Critical Thunderclap and a POW 15 elec shot (with Firefly). Further tests will say if the trade worth it.
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Post by snarlyyow on May 1, 2017 21:10:42 GMT
Yeah, I thougth about it... but the Tremor special attack + Open Fist seem more useful than Critical Thunderclap and a POW 15 elec shot (with Firefly). Further tests will say if the trade worth it. The Reliant is so weird. Like, here you are with the points for it and you seriously struggle to justify it in the list. I've often found myself in the same position. It's not that it's bad or not worth 14 points, it's the problem of "What's it do?!". If the Gun was higher POW, or the AOE larger, or the hammer +1, or had Accumulator, or...anything. It's a fine jack and totally worth 14 points, it just doesn't do anything.
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sleet01
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Post by sleet01 on May 2, 2017 0:38:46 GMT
Yeah, I thougth about it... but the Tremor special attack + Open Fist seem more useful than Critical Thunderclap and a POW 15 elec shot (with Firefly). Further tests will say if the trade worth it. The Reliant is so weird. Like, here you are with the points for it and you seriously struggle to justify it in the list. I've often found myself in the same position. It's not that it's bad or not worth 14 points, it's the problem of "What's it do?!". If the Gun was higher POW, or the AOE larger, or the hammer +1, or had Accumulator, or...anything. It's a fine jack and totally worth 14 points, it just doesn't do anything. It should have an Electrical spray weapon whose range is determined by the number of Focus on it at the time it makes an attack, IMNSHO... >_>
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Post by snarlyyow on May 2, 2017 1:16:44 GMT
The Reliant is so weird. Like, here you are with the points for it and you seriously struggle to justify it in the list. I've often found myself in the same position. It's not that it's bad or not worth 14 points, it's the problem of "What's it do?!". If the Gun was higher POW, or the AOE larger, or the hammer +1, or had Accumulator, or...anything. It's a fine jack and totally worth 14 points, it just doesn't do anything. It should have an Electrical spray weapon whose range is determined by the number of Focus on it at the time it makes an attack, IMNSHO... >_> Oh man! That'd be so awesome! Like, if it has no focus it has a spray 4 POW 10 and for every focus it goes up 2? So one focus turns it into a Spray6, POW12, then a Spray 8 POW14, then a Spray10 POW16? That'd be cool. Or just make it reload [1]. That'd be something too.
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