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Post by tabletopinquisitor on Mar 9, 2017 21:08:35 GMT
Hello folks,
Sorry if this is the wrong place for this post, feel free to remove/delete.
I'm a fairly new player to WMH and figured I'd ask the more seasoned players here for some tips on the best practices to use when fighting cloud-wall based armies?
Both of my usual opponents have begun heavily employing cloud-wall armies... although they take different approaches. One is playing cryx and using cloud walls to hide his forces from shooting/charging. The other opponent rocks Khador and uses Harky+kodiaks to setup a massive armor skew behind a cloud wall. I find his army tends to be super quick with the extra repositions and speed boost from Hark... so I often cannot just jam him out of scenario. My current approach to this is to run my troops up as fast as possible and force an engagement. I have had success with lists that pack a bunch of big armor (Stryker1).... but I've been a lot less successful with shooting lists (obviously), and with lists that really want the charge (Stryker2).
I just wanted to know what sorts of approaches and tricks in general tend to work against these strategies. My lists have tended to be slow... so I've been speeding both of them up with more infantry and Lances...
Any advice would be appreciated.
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Post by Phoenixforger on Mar 9, 2017 21:21:03 GMT
Bring Haley3 with the best cloud wall in the game. Show them how it's really done.
Or Sloan, and just ignore the presence of the clouds entirely.
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Post by olannon on Mar 9, 2017 21:33:38 GMT
In general fighting against clouds requires at least one of the following: Speed, durability, true/eyeless sight, control, shenanigans. Here are some examples from a Cygnar perspective: 1. Speed. If you are able to out-threat whatever's behind the clouds it doesn't necessarily matter that your LoS to it is hidden. Cygnar unfortunately doesn't do this very well. Skorne can. I'm thinking of Ferox in particular. With a high, natural SPD stat and the jump ability they can often bypass the virtues of clouds. As far as Cygnar is concerned I guess Stryker2's about as good as it gets, take a lot of Lances and run them up + feat. 2. Durability. Sometimes you can quite frankly simply jam an opponent so hard that his cloud wall falls apart and you claim table space. Despite a big blunder I think this report illustrates the point quite well: www.courageofcaspia.com/2017/02/battle-report-437-stryker1-vs-haley3.html 3. True sight / eyeless sight. Sloan is the obvious candidate from a Cygnar point of view. Field Marshal: True Sight allows her battlegroup to simply not care about clouds as far as LoS is concerned. 4. Control. Haley2 is our best bet here. By having spells like TK and Domination available she can mess so much with the models right behind the clouds. See this report for a very close game where Haley2's control messes with my clouds (I play Haley3): www.courageofcaspia.com/2016/09/invasion-2016-game-4-291-haley3-vs.html5. Shenanigans. Ah, so many ways to go about this for Cygnar. You can play your own clouds (with Haley3 for example), you can go for electro leaps (Nemo3 or basically any Storm Division list) or you can go for covering fires (e.g. double Stormwalls). Depends what kind of models hide behind the clouds, really  In short there are many solutions available to us |
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Post by snarlyyow on Mar 10, 2017 0:51:16 GMT
olannon is pretty straight up. A couple more options:
1) Spark node the bastards. Run a Firefly or any lighting immune model up to the clouds then shoot it and eleap stuff behind the clouds. No line of Sight required!
2) The Stormwall + Covering Fire + Snipe. Throw down some covering templates out in front of those guys, prevent them from rinsing and repeating.
3) Stryker1 + feat. Run dudes into the cloud, feat, be unkillable.
4) Stryker2 + feat. Run dudes into the clouds, feat, move and kill those dudes.
5) Sturgis. This is the best way to do it though Sturgis is generally not good. Throw Snipe on the stormwall, put covering fire in front of dudes, feat, kill those dudes.
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Post by tabletopinquisitor on Mar 10, 2017 17:26:11 GMT
Awesome answers everyone. This is very helpful. Hopefully you can help with one more specific question regarding cloud walls.... what do you do if there is high armor waiting behind them? I tend not to want to commit my units as they'll fail to do any damage when denied the charge, and they also will die to the autohit AOE damage a lot of Khador jacks can put out. I suppose under this circumstance I should jam with my Jacks first? And hold the units as a counterpunch when the engagements begin? I've also thought about flanking hard to force a cloud wall like this to fall apart.... anyways I'm sure this is super basic stuff, but I only get to play a game or so a week and haven't been able to hard test much. Wisdom from the Swans is always appreciated  |
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Post by olannon on Mar 10, 2017 23:45:30 GMT
Awesome answers everyone. This is very helpful. Hopefully you can help with one more specific question regarding cloud walls.... what do you do if there is high armor waiting behind them? I tend not to want to commit my units as they'll fail to do any damage when denied the charge, and they also will die to the autohit AOE damage a lot of Khador jacks can put out. I suppose under this circumstance I should jam with my Jacks first? And hold the units as a counterpunch when the engagements begin? I've also thought about flanking hard to force a cloud wall like this to fall apart.... anyways I'm sure this is super basic stuff, but I only get to play a game or so a week and haven't been able to hard test much. Wisdom from the Swans is always appreciated If you do a simple CTRL + F search "Harkevich" on this page: www.courageofcaspia.com/p/battle-reports.html you will find a number of reports which elaborate on this in detail  |
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Post by tabletopinquisitor on Mar 11, 2017 21:59:45 GMT
Thank you so much! Not sure why I've missed your Harkevich reports, but this is super helpful. I've had H2 for a while... but have never put a proper list together for her. Maybe it's time.
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