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Post by darkangeldentist on Jun 11, 2017 22:22:29 GMT
Is anyone else interested in the Kraye CID?
I'm not part of the CID forums so only found out about him recently but I'm very excited the proposed changes and really want to get a test game with him. He looks a lot better and a hell of a lot more survivable and fun to play.
The changes seem very powerful and it surprises me that they have done away with his entire current spell list. The feat is completely different as well so I'm a bit shocked at the level of change. He appears so much more powerful though, admonition instead of pursuit is probably better and the return of Full tilt is so welcome, even if the effect of the spell is very different (battlegroup wide rather than single model) and I suspect countermeasures could make him an automatic anti-Cygnar drop.
I've no local Cygnar players to talk to so I'm pleading with you guys on the forum. What do you make of Kraye?
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Post by 36Cygnar24Guy36 on Jun 12, 2017 8:34:39 GMT
I would have been happy with Steady and replacing Easy Rider with Mobility, this new version is utterly insane, and it shows what you can end up with when you 'design by committee'.
I warrant most people giving suggestions had never put Kraye on the table, they just look at him on paper and think he is 'meh', I did exactly the same, and then I played against him and then with him, he is a lot better than people think.
that is one of my main frustrations with CID, people who have no business being listened to get a say, and it seems however shouts loudest gets what they want
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mrveux
Lt. Warcaster
Posts: 73 
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Post by mrveux on Jun 12, 2017 12:50:24 GMT
Having sat through a lot of the CID from the very beginning (Grymkin will be my second faction, so I was all about that sh*t), I think what you are seeing in the first addition is something that was put together in a day, and designed to be over powered so that people could say what they liked and what they didn't. I don't think it's actually that much a model designed by committee but instead a model where the ideas where crowd sourced, and then the best one where used by the dev team to design the model. Also the Dev team has been really strong on putting their foot down when something doesn't work for them, gets off topic, or starts becoming what they see as a nonconstructive conversation.
I for one, have never put Kraye on a table. I don't get enough time to play as I would like and my budget is fairly limited so I wasn't going to speak to how he plays on the table. But what I am absolutely in the correct place to talk about it is what lead me, while standing in my local gaming store to decide that I wanted to buy Nemo3 or Caine3 over Kraye.
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mrveux
Lt. Warcaster
Posts: 73
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Post by mrveux on Jun 12, 2017 12:56:15 GMT
To the original post. I am really looking forward to taking a test run with this Kraye on the table. I love the new feat, and I love how it encourages Kraye to potentially run infantry and split his forces. Being the one major CRS authority figure that I don't want to shoot in the head (although let's be honest, everyone wants to shoot Bolden Rebald in the head), I like his new 'spy/ranger' focus. I also really like that he has game out of both Heavy Metal, and Gravediggers. (And maybe almost the gun mage theme, and nobody plays out of the gun mage theme.)
I think he's going to end up as probably a solid 'A' to 'A-' tier caster who can get a battle group super deep into enemy lines, scalpel out key models and have a strong scenario game. I think his downfalls are that he has to rely on his jacks to do all of the damage, he can get them there, he can make them hit, but he has to commit hard and deep without a damage buff. Makes him a very high risk/high reward caster.
I will definitely be buying one, and if I manage to get a test game in with him before the end of CID, I will post the battle report here as well as on the CID forum.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Jun 12, 2017 15:49:17 GMT
Thank you for the replies.
I have played Kraye in Mk3 and enjoyed him. His tool kit changed a lot and I deeply missed things like full tilt and guided fire but reposition 5" gave so much to his heavy jacks along with the other changes to the cavalry rules that I really enjoyed most of the games I had with him. He was borderline over-powered into some match-ups because opponents just couldn't trade pieces against him. A gun line that walks up, shoots you and then backs off 5" can present a horrible problem for some lists. However his tool box felt shallow and his lack of damage buffs or force multipliers did make him feel like a focus battery on the table.
I am hoping to get a game in with the CID version and will post up a battle report on the sub-forum if I do get to play.
I'm not sure I can call the new version insane 36Cygnar24Guy36 he still lacks any way to up the damage output of our jacks or infantry and although the feat is now less battlegroup focused he's still very much a battlegroup caster and has gone back to one that's going to spend most turns quite focus starved. This new spell list gives him a lot of tricks and options but it also dictates his focus expenditure in a similar way to his Mk2 incarnation. Whilst it's far less of a problem in Mk3 due to power-up it's still relevant to what he'll do on the table and how good he is.
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Post by 36Cygnar24Guy36 on Jun 12, 2017 19:16:02 GMT
I may have been a bit hyperbolic, and you are absolutely right about him being focused strapped, and that he has no damage buff, however there are 2 things I feel will mitigate that.
1) SR17, with the race to 5 CPs no longer being a thing, and attrition supposedly bring the primary win condition, innate repo 5 and pathfinder makes his hit and run game absolutely ball breaking, you will never get a hold of him, especially now when you can flare those high def or stealth models on feat turn, don't even have to break theme to take GMCAs, just jump a minuteman to do it.
2) Yes he does lack a damage buff, however his toolbox means that you don't have to one round heavies or Colossals, why not charge up a Centurion, beat on a heavy, repo 5 and polarity field, yes you take a free strike but are now 7" away, use an Express team to push the heavy back further, use Brickhouse to shut down some non reach heavies, stranglehold another, put admonition up on another heavy, I can see taking him out of theme and just putting together this crazy package of stuff to screw with your opponent.
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mrveux
Lt. Warcaster
Posts: 73
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Post by mrveux on Jun 12, 2017 19:37:32 GMT
I think he is going to end up being a pretty high floor/high ceiling caster. Mitigating the lack of damage buffs and defensive buffs with the ability to reliably hit and move all across the boards is going to lead to a bunch of really interesting game. It's going to come down to can they put you in a place where you can't dance away or hit you hard enough when they can that all that movement doesn't matter. All in all, it's going to be nice to have another strong control caster that doesn't start with an 'h' and rhyme with 'daily'.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Jun 14, 2017 7:42:00 GMT
I'll post up a battle report in the relevant sub-forum in the next day or so but I did get my game with the most recent CID version of Kraye. Was up against an Abby2 list with lots of beasts and playing one of the CID 2017 steamroller missions. It was an interesting game that really highlighted the strength of Kraye's attrition game. He's going to be seriously obnoxious for a lot of people because of his new toolkit. Pathfinder being added to iron horse was interestingly one of the most benefits due to the terrain we had. (Forests and walls a plenty.) I can happily say that his current version is really good but it's not looking ridiculously overpowered.
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mrveux
Lt. Warcaster
Posts: 73
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Post by mrveux on Jun 14, 2017 12:26:06 GMT
I'm hoping to get a game in with him tomorrow, and will report back here as well as on the CID forums if I do. @ DarkAngelDentist, do you mind telling me what your list was? I still haven't finalized mine. (aside from knowing that I'm probably going Heavy Metal as I don't own commandos or rangers, and don't want to super heavy proxy.)
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mrveux
Lt. Warcaster
Posts: 73
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Post by mrveux on Jun 15, 2017 23:34:32 GMT
Well I did it. I just broke down and bought my Kraye.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Jun 16, 2017 1:32:46 GMT
I've posted up the report but I post it here as well for you.
Kraye
Squire
Ace
Gallant
Defender
Defender
Charger
Charger
Sentinel
Harlan Versh
Arlan Strangewayes
Field mechanics (min)
I know Ace is a very sub-optimal choice but I've been meaning to see if there's enough to him with any other casters, just for that turn of stealth and now there is an added element because Ace still has AD. There is one synergy that Ace brings to Kraye's CID game that's worth mentioning, on feat turn his gun will gain flare and beacon. Because Ace has true sight natively he's able to light up stealth targets from afar to let the rest of the battle group shoot it down. Not an amazing gimmick but quite a useful one.
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mrveux
Lt. Warcaster
Posts: 73
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Post by mrveux on Jun 16, 2017 13:17:33 GMT
SO I bought my Kraye yesterday, and am giving him a test run against a really new player this weekend, which means I'm going more for an interesting list as opposed to trying to full out optimize. This is what I'm giving a test drive. (I'm also trying to go bare minimum on proxies as he doesn't have the basics completely memorized and I don't want another layer of complications.)
Kraye
-Squire
-Centurion
-Gallant
-Ironclad
-Charger
-Minuteman
Strangewayes
Versh
JR
-Charger
Thorn Gun Mages
-Murdoch
I'll make sure to post the battle report both here and on the CID.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Jun 16, 2017 14:48:01 GMT
Looks quite fun. I'm all for trying out less optimised builds, sometimes you find something good, other times it's just okay. I'll be very interested to hear how the Thorn gun mages with Murdoch work out for you, on paper it just looks so neat.
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mrveux
Lt. Warcaster
Posts: 73
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Post by mrveux on Jun 16, 2017 16:09:13 GMT
Looks quite fun. I'm all for trying out less optimised builds, sometimes you find something good, other times it's just okay. I'll be very interested to hear how the Thorn gun mages with Murdoch work out for you, on paper it just looks so neat. I'll let you know, I like the fact that they get 3 shots a gun mage on the charge, seems like a really good way to unclog, where the first shot sets the target on fire and the next two push it out of the way. |
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