booggy
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Posts: 32 
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Post by booggy on Jun 1, 2017 12:48:40 GMT
I'm currently adjusting a pairing with Maddox Storm Division (with non elec shooting), and Nemo1 Heavy Metal (thanks to xadmar and snarlyyow threads ^^). Several tests have been made, and I'm quite happy with my Maddox list, mainly as an anti-Storm Division and Hordes drop (she's a good counter to Baldur2, by the way). So, my Nemo1 list was more or less built to play against Warmachine (except Cygnar StormDivision, potentially). But, i found that his game against Cryx (lack of magical attacks, lot of debuff) and Domination caster (Haley2/3, Iron Mother etc..) could be very hard. And... a weird thought has come to me : Gallant would be very nice to answer these problems. No Parasite, no Tk, no Domination, no Backlash.... The brave jack could advance in front of a Stormwall without fear of a being TK'ed/dominated, handle the enemy shooting with Deceleration up (and maybe Arcane Shield). And threatening the colossal with Purgation and Lightning Shroud. But it means no Theme Force as well... Nonetheless, here is the list : I've got my three spellcaster, my usual support (Squire/Arlan), some fun unusuals solos (Versh/Finn), threat extenders (Lanyssa), my three heavy jacks, the mighty Thorn (which love Locomotion), my two mandatories Fireflies... and I lost 17 free pts, repo[3"] on my solos, and the +2" DZ. Fellow swans, I ask it to you : does it make sense nowadays to build a Cygnar list without Theme Force ?  Am i going totally crazy ? |
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mrveux
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Posts: 73
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Post by mrveux on Jun 1, 2017 14:00:11 GMT
I've played a handful of Nemo1 games without theme force and I've found that the main problem I have is getting my spellcasters up the field while still keeping Nemo at 10 Focus on turn 2. The solution I've found is to bring more than three casters so you can trade off who is casting and who is running. I would attempt to at least find room for Jakes, if not the TAC.
...Scratch that, the TAC are dirt, don't listen to me, don't run them.
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booggy
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Posts: 32
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Post by booggy on Jun 1, 2017 14:28:24 GMT
Hu, I see. Lanyssa here can be in this situation, where I want to run with her turn 1 (so no spell is cast)... Arlan and Junior are OK to only walk each turn. I have to think about it. Maybe having Nemo with only 9+1 focus from Squire is OK at turn 2, especially with Versh providing Accumulator for Gallant.. ?
I agree with you about the TAC... I used to play them in MK2 with Nemo1, but only 1 hp in MK3 hurts them too much.
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mrveux
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Post by mrveux on Jun 1, 2017 15:41:41 GMT
I gave them one or two solid tries, and each time I fielded them they felt to slow and to fragile for spending 9 points. Like they either where lagging at the back or provided one turn of smoke and then ate it. I feel like maybe if they had their hit boxes back, I'd give them another shot, but for right now they just don't do enough. I've thought about Ayana and Holt with Nemo1, but the 12 points you'd need to make them effective seems like to much of an investment for one extra cast and a small damage buff.
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booggy
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Posts: 32
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Post by booggy on Jun 1, 2017 16:01:06 GMT
The options are thin, for spell casting : either I have to remove Gallant to include Thamarite models (Ragman, Alexia1/2), or i have to take minion/merco unit with no real other utility in the list (Lynus&Edrea, Tactical Corps, Ayianna&Holt).
The easiest way is to include Jakes or Gastonne, to maximize the spell casting. Need to test !!
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Post by snarlyyow on Jun 1, 2017 16:11:01 GMT
I have not played into Ghost Fleet once. All my Cryxians traded in their souls for Khadoran red come Markiii. I don't even know what Ghost Fleet does. So I'm here to basically say: "I can't help you."  |
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gmonkey
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Post by gmonkey on Jun 1, 2017 20:51:38 GMT
You've got Arlan, Lanyssa, and the Journeyman for tokens - no need for Jakes or the TAC. If you're looking to add in more power token generation though, and you like fun unusual extras, Rorsch and Brine are so much fun, and they do great against anything living.
As far as playing out of theme, I like doing it. It remains to be seen whether themes are so strong that everyone is required to use them, but I'm hoping that isn't the case. Still, my new Nemo Heavy Metal list gets 17 free points, and that's a free Centurion.
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Post by snarlyyow on Jun 1, 2017 22:16:02 GMT
You've got Arlan, Lanyssa, and the Journeyman for tokens - no need for Jakes or the TAC. If you're looking to add in more power token generation though, and you like fun unusual extras, Rorsch and Brine are so much fun, and they do great against anything living. As far as playing out of theme, I like doing it. It remains to be seen whether themes are so strong that everyone is required to use them, but I'm hoping that isn't the case. Still, my new Nemo Heavy Metal list gets 17 free points, and that's a free Centurion. The themes just vary for everyone. Like, H2 is *better* in theme but she's not a ton better. She gains, I dunno, 5% dominance? Nemo1 on the other hand almost needs Heavy Metal, getting a free jack is exactly what he wants, he can run them, has battlegroup spells, Decel is great for the battlegroup. Nemo prolly gains about 30% power getting that jack. Other casters, like Maddox, become playable in Storm Division. And still others, like Stryker2, might not want a theme at all (but I bet he'll love the trencher theme!). It just depends. Personally, I can't imagine playing Nemo1 out of Heavy Metal. He's great. A Centurion and Decel lets you put Arcane Shield on something else, like Dynamo. Having an opponent face down a bunch of ARM21+ jacks at range is fantastic. |
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booggy
Journeyman Warcaster
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Post by booggy on Jun 2, 2017 7:18:24 GMT
I would say that in the vast majority of match-up, Nemo1 Heavy Metal lists are better (maybe not 30% thus) than out of theme lists. But against these specific opponent (Haley2, etc...), i'm unsure. Snarlyyow : Have you already face Haley2/3 with Nemo1 Heavy Metal ? If yes, what was the result ? I got a tournament this week-end, where i will bring my Maddox StormDivision/Nemo1 WTF pairing... it should be a nice test |
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xadmar
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Cygnar Fan
Posts: 55
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Post by xadmar on Jun 2, 2017 14:49:47 GMT
I have not put this to the test as our local Cryx player refuses to play into Cygnar but does Arlan and Nemo1's Chain Lightning do enough to kill off most incorporeal?
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Post by snarlyyow on Jun 2, 2017 15:56:35 GMT
I would say that in the vast majority of match-up, Nemo1 Heavy Metal lists are better (maybe not 30% thus) than out of theme lists. But against these specific opponent (Haley2, etc...), i'm unsure. Snarlyyow : Have you already face Haley2/3 with Nemo1 Heavy Metal ? If yes, what was the result ? I got a tournament this week-end, where i will bring my Maddox StormDivision/Nemo1 WTF pairing... it should be a nice test I did. I lost. I lost because I derped really hard, it's in one of the podcasts. But I largely think Nemo can take Haley2 if she's in Heavy Metal. You can disrupt thorn with the feat, Voltaic Snare him, and shoot a DEF9 Thorn down. You can Voltaic Snare her Stormwall. If she has a Stormclad, you can Voltaic snare that. Haley is stronger, but Nemo has more staying power and usually more jacks and he can use all his tools every turn, Haley can't. |
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booggy
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Post by booggy on Jun 6, 2017 9:30:17 GMT
Thanks for input about Haley2/Nemo1 match-up, snarlyyow, it's interesting.
About Nemo1, I played him twice this WE, versus Karchev Spam Jack and Kaya2. I managed to kill Karchev, while he was behind a a forest and a Juggernaut : a firefly slammed the Jugg into Karchev, who stayed under Ionization range and KD, and Dynamo with a LOS on him and good damage rolls, kills him. A lightning Shrouded/Locomotionned Thorn was ready to finish him too.
I feel the match-up favorable to Nemo1, Voltaic Snare preventing CounterCharge, and because of other usual things Nemo1 has against Warjacks.
The other game was against a new player, so not much to say about the game. Gallant one-shot a Pureblood under Force Evolution ^^. And Kaya2 died under an aiming Dynamo.
My conclusion about Nemo1 out of TF : he certainly has potential, and Gallant/Thorn is very fun/strong with him, but I think i would rather tweaking my other list of the pairing (ie Maddox here) to take Nemo1's bad match-ups, and play him in Heavy Metal, as a free heavy jack is so good for Nemo1.
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xadmar
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Cygnar Fan
Posts: 55
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Post by xadmar on Jun 6, 2017 19:36:04 GMT
Nice assessment.
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booggy
Journeyman Warcaster
Posts: 32
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Post by booggy on Jul 5, 2017 12:29:44 GMT
Damn... It seems I'm not 100% cured... I'm still thinking about the old man out of TF !!... Gallant with him is still appealing to me as a pretty good answer to Cygnar pairing these days (Stryker1 "double colossal"/Haley2 "BE-HurriThorn" / Kara Sloan "Hunterz-Wall" / etc..)
- Decel make it ARM 21, very decent again heavy shooting (Arcane Shield put it at "direct shooting immune" level)
- Lightning shroud make it immune elec => no damage from Hurricane, which become more and more prevalent in Swan lists
- innate Sacred Ward make it immune to Haley2/Haley3
- 4 focus + Lightning Shroud + Purgation is a huge damage output potential vs our buffed colossals
- Locomotion ensures it can be delivered
Adding Storm lances to the mix can bring another threat to opponent... and Decel + AS on our cav appears to be great.
Besides Haley2 and Stryker1 themselves, I cannot see any other as good option as Nemo1+Gallant seems to be versus Cygnar "powerlist". And the old man can walk his way through a lot of other factions/match-ups as well.
The list :
(Nemo 1) Commander Adept Nemo [+30]
- Gallant [17]
- Dynamo [18]
- Firefly [8]
- Thorn [13]
- Squire [5]
Storm Lances (max) [20]
Captain Arlan Strangewayes [4]
Journeyman Warcaster [4]
- Firefly [8]
Lanyssa Ryssyl [4]
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist [4]
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gmonkey
Journeyman Warcaster
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Post by gmonkey on Jul 5, 2017 14:10:50 GMT
Interesting. Why Gorman? For the anti-jack stackable damage buff? Or for the oil vs battle engines? I guess the smoke is nice for keeping Nemo slightly safer.
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booggy
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Posts: 32
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Post by booggy on Jul 5, 2017 14:30:27 GMT
Interesting. Why Gorman? For the anti-jack stackable damage buff? Or for the oil vs battle engines? I guess the smoke is nice for keeping Nemo slightly safer. All of this ! To be honest, Harlan Versh was my first choice... but, as I'm very fond of StormStrider post-CID, I thought at first acquaintance to include it + Gobber Tinker, to give a good spot for Nemo1 to hide + a second mechanik + all goodness our BE can give. As the second list of my futur pairing will be Nemo3 with BE + Stormblade infantry (which is a kind of "static" list), I prefered switch the BE + Gobber with Storm lances, to emphasize the speed of the Nemo1 list (Thorn + Reaction Drive, Locomotion, cav with Repo[3] etc..). This leads me to include something else to protect Nemo1.. Gorman seems good for that with his smoke, for only 4 pts. And he can bring the possible damage output a level further. Dynamo under Lightning Shroud + Rust could one-round a buffed heavy jack. Gallant with Purgation, and same buffs, could even one-round an Arcane Shielded Stormwall/Hurricane. |
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gmonkey
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Post by gmonkey on Jul 5, 2017 17:08:31 GMT
I guess with Battle Engines suddenly becoming more prevalent, we might see Gorman more. Jacks can shake oil, but one of Battle Engines' biggest flaws is that they can't shake effects. Man, I'd love to hit two B2B Siege Crawlers with a black oil.
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mrveux
Lt. Warcaster
Posts: 73
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Post by mrveux on Jul 5, 2017 17:31:42 GMT
I currently have him in my new Kraye list, but part of that is because I'm running the full Llael package, and him getting reposition 3" makes him really sexy. (that is if you find dudes in gasmasks sexy.)
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gmonkey
Journeyman Warcaster
Posts: 33
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Post by gmonkey on Jul 5, 2017 19:55:28 GMT
(that is if you find dudes in gasmasks sexy.) Hey man, if that's your thing... I'm not judging. ;-) |
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booggy
Journeyman Warcaster
Posts: 32
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Post by booggy on Jul 5, 2017 20:13:03 GMT
Actually, Gorman + Nemo1/Thorn are a very nice combination versus jacks... Blind + massive Disruption is a a thing I have to say that the Gibbs/Ragman/Gorman package is quite appealing to play out of TF... by the way, Stryker2 is my second choice to pair with Nemo3 SD  But for now, I still finding Nemo1 more suited versus Cygnar. Tests need to be made !! |
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But for now, I still finding Nemo1 more suited versus Cygnar. Tests need to be made !!