Post by darkangeldentist on Jun 15, 2017 0:09:27 GMT
Apologies, I'm having trouble copy pasting photos so will try and add pictures another time.
I got to try out Kraye's CID changes on the table and the game was both entertaining and pretty interesting. I was trying out Ace with Kraye not because of any particular synergy but to see if there is any caster other than Caine who can get good mileage out him. On to the lists.
Kraye
Gallant
Defender
Defender
Charger
Charger
Ace
Sentinel
Squire
Arlan Strangewayes
Min field mechanics
Harlan Versh
Abyslonia2
Proteus
Ravagore
Archangel
Raek
Nephilim protector
Nephilim Bloodseer
Succubus
2x Forsaken
Shepherd
2x Spell martyrs
His list was using the oracles of annihilation theme force.
The scenario was also from the CID 2017 pack. We rolled up spread the net, the larger templates are forests and the smaller one to the right was rough terrain (it looked more distinctly different than in the photo). I won the roll-off and chose to go first.
In the picture, Ace is yet to be deployed.
Turn 1:
First turn is easy, let all the heavies trample and reposition forwards as far as they can leaving the lights slightly outpaced. Kraye can still easily advance and put out admonition onto Gallant and Countermeasures goes onto one of the chargers. I'm not confident I need to have that spell out here but I've got the focus to spare. Ace runs up to the central forest. My opponent is perhaps a little over-cautious about the ranged threat from the defenders and chargers so is not that aggressive, the archangel runs out to the far right flank and the raek went even further out, whilst the other heavies headed to the flag to go base to base for Abby to hide behind them. She put return fire onto the ravagore and that's it for her turn. (Bracer was already out due to the theme on Proteus.) The protector shadowed Abby and the Bloodseer ran off to ensure something substantial could contest the left zone. The martyrs made a rather bold move running onto the hill on the left flank.
Turn 2:
Well I could see an easy way to get rid of the spell martyrs and with a bit of luck might even bring down a heavy. I do need to put some things in zones to stop legion getting ahead too quickly for scenario. I drop countermeasures as I just don't want or feel any value in throwing away a jack just to make him mess with his order of activations. Admonition is upkept though. Kraye hands out focus to the chargers and pulls one from the squire. Ace starts the turn by shooting one spell martyr before finishing in the left zone and Kraye is able to kill the other ahead of repositioning back onto my flag. Gallant runs into the central zone, partially obscured by the forest and out of legion's threat ranges. The defenders and chargers manage to do a little over half the ravagore's boxes but fall well short of killing the beast. Repositions mean the jacks are comfortably out of charge threat but not so far back as to be outside of the ranged threat from the ravagore and archangel. Harlan runs up to hide behind Gallant (and outside of blast range) whilst the mechanics and Arlan stay safely distant.
Abby gets to upkeep for free due to the succubus and regrets not being more bold with the advance. Proteus runs into the zone with the forest inbetween Gallant and it and the protector also runs up so that the succubus can put a cloud on him and shut down line of sight to Abby who runs to the back of the central zone behind her beasts. The archangel and ravagore shoot at the charger and Gallant doing good damage to the charger, taking out movement and the gun, but the hit on Gallant is shield guarded back to the sentinel to do only 3 damage. The bloodseer runs to toe the left zone and the raek jumps into the right zone. Scoring starts with us both getting 1 point.
Turn 3:
Although the forest blocks line of sight because iron horse now grants pathfinder Gallant can just walk up and smack Proteus after Harlan shoots him a bit. I only roll 3 shots and do just a few points of damage even with purgation before Gallant steps up with a full focus load and attempts to kill proteus. I had forgotten unyielding so was having to get past ARM 22 rather than just 20 but at least I had purgation to help counter the problems. The protector was also engaged and a punch to the face bloodied the light beasts nose. The sword swung down and left proteus on 1 wound! (Please add expletive of your choice here!) Kraye went next and I decided to feat Kraye shot and actually damaged the bloodseer for a few points with an unboosted shot before trying to kill the forsaken with his second shot. The hit was shield guarded onto the protector for no damage. Kraye then repositioned back to the flag. Ace now had a free slam and knocked the bloodseer back out of the zone and nearly into the succubus, repositioning back as far as he could away from the legion forces. The sentinel did me proud and managed to kill the forsaken before I opened up with the big guns. I really needed proteus dead so Arlan walked into the forest to give a defender an extra focus so it could aim and boost attack and damage rolls. The shot hit true and felled the un-natural monster. (Much to my relief.) The charger with a damaged gun managed to kill the other forsaken before repositioning back to get repaired. The mechanics did a fine job putting back 9 boxes on the charge and 2 to the sentinel. The other charger and defender continued to shoot the ravagore dealing good damage but not killing it. Repositions ensured that the only jack in danger of being charged was gallant who had admonition to help keep him safe. I scored 2 to his 1 bringing the scores to 3-2.
Abby spent a bit of time trying to plan out how to zap Harlan with her spells to trigger Alpha hunter. I reminded him that Harlan had stealth and was immune to spells before he tried this. The agonising did spur his memory though to remember that guard dog (from the protector) gives immunity to free strikes so Abby would be able to fly over Gallant risk free and kill Harlan in melee. This was done with contemptible ease and Abby also feated before casting psycho-surgery to heal the ravagore and retreating to the back of the central zone to leave space for the archangel. The bloodseer (who had shaken at the start of the turn) charged Ace and took out his movement (and knocked him down) before surgically taking out my cortex as well. (Just no luck for Ace it seems...) The ravagore couldn't resist the change to kill my mechanics so sent another fireball arcing towards the repaired charger, the blast killed all the mechanics and took a chunk out of the charger but failed to cripple any important systems. The raek saw a change to get Arlan and although it was only just in range it was able to kill the veteran mechanic and engage both defenders. Finally the archangel charged into Gallant who calmly backed off out of range due to admonition, much to the frustration of the giant dragon spawn. The score now went to 4-3.
Turn 4:
On the bright side I still hadn't lost any heavies, on the downside there was a giant dragon stood in front of Gallant and both my other heavies were engaged by a very hard to hit light. Kraye took the final point from the squire and just handed out focus, Gallant and a defender were fully loaded and both chargers got an extra focus too. Kraye kept the last one for himself to camp. Kraye managed to quite surprisingly do about 8 damage to the blood seer before Ace stood back up. Gallant lamented the fact that Abby had not cast an upkeep onto the archangel but straight dice damage ought to see some decent results. 4 swings of the sword and a punch to the face did nearly half the gargantuan's boxes. Not bad but not great either. The fully loaded defender head butted the raek to the ground and followed with another hammer strike leaving it about half dead. The other defender and the chargers finished both the raek and ravagore off. The unharmed charger advancing and repositioning all the way into the right zone to get me back to scoring 2 points a turn. Score went to 6-3.
The legion forces had lost a lot and had some fury management issues to deal with, the blood seer frenzied to do a little more damage to Ace but that was all. The archangel was now able to try and eat Gallant but nearly fluffed it after the first two attacks missed. It actually came down to the protector to finish off Gallant as Abby just wanted to stay safe and cast psycho-surgery and heal her beasts. By killing Gallant he had managed to clear the centre zone and scored a point to my two. Score was now 7-4.
Turn 5:
The defenders were about 11" away from the gargantuan so with full tilt they could charge and try to bring down the big beast. So that's what I did, the second defender dealt the final blow and killed the archangel whilst the chargers mopped up the shepherd and did a bit more damage to the protector before darting back to the other side of the forest. Score went to 9-4.
With no way to contest all the zones and flags my opponent conceded as he couldn't see a way to kill Kraye. Victory to Cygnar.
Review:
This new Kraye is a lot more powerful than the current version and there's a lot more for him to think about too. The ranged harassment game is exactly the same although admonition is even more obnoxious than bullet dodger or pursuit because of how simple it is to use. Countermeasures is a very potent spell but it probably needs a unit to deliver it to the enemy (or Thorn), otherwise it's just throwing away stuff to mildly annoy the opponent and mess with their order of activations. Cygnar doesn't have quite the same stable of obnoxious infantry and jamming units that Mercs can bring to the table. Although our lights do come close. Full tilt as it currently stands is a good spell, not bonkers good and it drains his focus on a turn where you ideally want/need to be handing out as much focus as possible to your jacks but the extra threat is fantastic. Stacked with his feat you're getting 5" extra threat on all your jacks. The new feat it cool, not amazing and certainly not as impressive you'd normally associate with a feat but it's a welcome change and more impactful than I first thought. Flare's reduction to enemy DEF makes the interaction between the boosted cavalry charge and any follow-up attacks stack very nicely. Although you'll probably be flaring stuff earlier to make that charge free it's still a noteworthy aspect of the feat.
Kind of wish PP stick with this version now and it's going to be agony waiting to see CID changes become official.
I got to try out Kraye's CID changes on the table and the game was both entertaining and pretty interesting. I was trying out Ace with Kraye not because of any particular synergy but to see if there is any caster other than Caine who can get good mileage out him. On to the lists.
Kraye
Gallant
Defender
Defender
Charger
Charger
Ace
Sentinel
Squire
Arlan Strangewayes
Min field mechanics
Harlan Versh
Abyslonia2
Proteus
Ravagore
Archangel
Raek
Nephilim protector
Nephilim Bloodseer
Succubus
2x Forsaken
Shepherd
2x Spell martyrs
His list was using the oracles of annihilation theme force.
The scenario was also from the CID 2017 pack. We rolled up spread the net, the larger templates are forests and the smaller one to the right was rough terrain (it looked more distinctly different than in the photo). I won the roll-off and chose to go first.
In the picture, Ace is yet to be deployed.
Turn 1:
First turn is easy, let all the heavies trample and reposition forwards as far as they can leaving the lights slightly outpaced. Kraye can still easily advance and put out admonition onto Gallant and Countermeasures goes onto one of the chargers. I'm not confident I need to have that spell out here but I've got the focus to spare. Ace runs up to the central forest. My opponent is perhaps a little over-cautious about the ranged threat from the defenders and chargers so is not that aggressive, the archangel runs out to the far right flank and the raek went even further out, whilst the other heavies headed to the flag to go base to base for Abby to hide behind them. She put return fire onto the ravagore and that's it for her turn. (Bracer was already out due to the theme on Proteus.) The protector shadowed Abby and the Bloodseer ran off to ensure something substantial could contest the left zone. The martyrs made a rather bold move running onto the hill on the left flank.
Turn 2:
Well I could see an easy way to get rid of the spell martyrs and with a bit of luck might even bring down a heavy. I do need to put some things in zones to stop legion getting ahead too quickly for scenario. I drop countermeasures as I just don't want or feel any value in throwing away a jack just to make him mess with his order of activations. Admonition is upkept though. Kraye hands out focus to the chargers and pulls one from the squire. Ace starts the turn by shooting one spell martyr before finishing in the left zone and Kraye is able to kill the other ahead of repositioning back onto my flag. Gallant runs into the central zone, partially obscured by the forest and out of legion's threat ranges. The defenders and chargers manage to do a little over half the ravagore's boxes but fall well short of killing the beast. Repositions mean the jacks are comfortably out of charge threat but not so far back as to be outside of the ranged threat from the ravagore and archangel. Harlan runs up to hide behind Gallant (and outside of blast range) whilst the mechanics and Arlan stay safely distant.
Abby gets to upkeep for free due to the succubus and regrets not being more bold with the advance. Proteus runs into the zone with the forest inbetween Gallant and it and the protector also runs up so that the succubus can put a cloud on him and shut down line of sight to Abby who runs to the back of the central zone behind her beasts. The archangel and ravagore shoot at the charger and Gallant doing good damage to the charger, taking out movement and the gun, but the hit on Gallant is shield guarded back to the sentinel to do only 3 damage. The bloodseer runs to toe the left zone and the raek jumps into the right zone. Scoring starts with us both getting 1 point.
Turn 3:
Although the forest blocks line of sight because iron horse now grants pathfinder Gallant can just walk up and smack Proteus after Harlan shoots him a bit. I only roll 3 shots and do just a few points of damage even with purgation before Gallant steps up with a full focus load and attempts to kill proteus. I had forgotten unyielding so was having to get past ARM 22 rather than just 20 but at least I had purgation to help counter the problems. The protector was also engaged and a punch to the face bloodied the light beasts nose. The sword swung down and left proteus on 1 wound! (Please add expletive of your choice here!) Kraye went next and I decided to feat Kraye shot and actually damaged the bloodseer for a few points with an unboosted shot before trying to kill the forsaken with his second shot. The hit was shield guarded onto the protector for no damage. Kraye then repositioned back to the flag. Ace now had a free slam and knocked the bloodseer back out of the zone and nearly into the succubus, repositioning back as far as he could away from the legion forces. The sentinel did me proud and managed to kill the forsaken before I opened up with the big guns. I really needed proteus dead so Arlan walked into the forest to give a defender an extra focus so it could aim and boost attack and damage rolls. The shot hit true and felled the un-natural monster. (Much to my relief.) The charger with a damaged gun managed to kill the other forsaken before repositioning back to get repaired. The mechanics did a fine job putting back 9 boxes on the charge and 2 to the sentinel. The other charger and defender continued to shoot the ravagore dealing good damage but not killing it. Repositions ensured that the only jack in danger of being charged was gallant who had admonition to help keep him safe. I scored 2 to his 1 bringing the scores to 3-2.
Abby spent a bit of time trying to plan out how to zap Harlan with her spells to trigger Alpha hunter. I reminded him that Harlan had stealth and was immune to spells before he tried this. The agonising did spur his memory though to remember that guard dog (from the protector) gives immunity to free strikes so Abby would be able to fly over Gallant risk free and kill Harlan in melee. This was done with contemptible ease and Abby also feated before casting psycho-surgery to heal the ravagore and retreating to the back of the central zone to leave space for the archangel. The bloodseer (who had shaken at the start of the turn) charged Ace and took out his movement (and knocked him down) before surgically taking out my cortex as well. (Just no luck for Ace it seems...) The ravagore couldn't resist the change to kill my mechanics so sent another fireball arcing towards the repaired charger, the blast killed all the mechanics and took a chunk out of the charger but failed to cripple any important systems. The raek saw a change to get Arlan and although it was only just in range it was able to kill the veteran mechanic and engage both defenders. Finally the archangel charged into Gallant who calmly backed off out of range due to admonition, much to the frustration of the giant dragon spawn. The score now went to 4-3.
Turn 4:
On the bright side I still hadn't lost any heavies, on the downside there was a giant dragon stood in front of Gallant and both my other heavies were engaged by a very hard to hit light. Kraye took the final point from the squire and just handed out focus, Gallant and a defender were fully loaded and both chargers got an extra focus too. Kraye kept the last one for himself to camp. Kraye managed to quite surprisingly do about 8 damage to the blood seer before Ace stood back up. Gallant lamented the fact that Abby had not cast an upkeep onto the archangel but straight dice damage ought to see some decent results. 4 swings of the sword and a punch to the face did nearly half the gargantuan's boxes. Not bad but not great either. The fully loaded defender head butted the raek to the ground and followed with another hammer strike leaving it about half dead. The other defender and the chargers finished both the raek and ravagore off. The unharmed charger advancing and repositioning all the way into the right zone to get me back to scoring 2 points a turn. Score went to 6-3.
The legion forces had lost a lot and had some fury management issues to deal with, the blood seer frenzied to do a little more damage to Ace but that was all. The archangel was now able to try and eat Gallant but nearly fluffed it after the first two attacks missed. It actually came down to the protector to finish off Gallant as Abby just wanted to stay safe and cast psycho-surgery and heal her beasts. By killing Gallant he had managed to clear the centre zone and scored a point to my two. Score was now 7-4.
Turn 5:
The defenders were about 11" away from the gargantuan so with full tilt they could charge and try to bring down the big beast. So that's what I did, the second defender dealt the final blow and killed the archangel whilst the chargers mopped up the shepherd and did a bit more damage to the protector before darting back to the other side of the forest. Score went to 9-4.
With no way to contest all the zones and flags my opponent conceded as he couldn't see a way to kill Kraye. Victory to Cygnar.
Review:
This new Kraye is a lot more powerful than the current version and there's a lot more for him to think about too. The ranged harassment game is exactly the same although admonition is even more obnoxious than bullet dodger or pursuit because of how simple it is to use. Countermeasures is a very potent spell but it probably needs a unit to deliver it to the enemy (or Thorn), otherwise it's just throwing away stuff to mildly annoy the opponent and mess with their order of activations. Cygnar doesn't have quite the same stable of obnoxious infantry and jamming units that Mercs can bring to the table. Although our lights do come close. Full tilt as it currently stands is a good spell, not bonkers good and it drains his focus on a turn where you ideally want/need to be handing out as much focus as possible to your jacks but the extra threat is fantastic. Stacked with his feat you're getting 5" extra threat on all your jacks. The new feat it cool, not amazing and certainly not as impressive you'd normally associate with a feat but it's a welcome change and more impactful than I first thought. Flare's reduction to enemy DEF makes the interaction between the boosted cavalry charge and any follow-up attacks stack very nicely. Although you'll probably be flaring stuff earlier to make that charge free it's still a noteworthy aspect of the feat.
Kind of wish PP stick with this version now and it's going to be agony waiting to see CID changes become official.
